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snappy puppies

Tue, 06/10/2008 - 19:47 — 2ACDpups

Hi there, (great site!), I have two cattle dog puppies, both about 15 weeks old...we live on acreage and my partner and I work during the day so they just play with eachother all day. I have taken them to an off-leash dog park twice now, and on Monday they went pretty alright, but today I left almost in tears. The 2 of them were a bit snappy at the other dogs....they didn't bite anyone, but they seemed a bit aggressive...however i'm not great at determining the difference between dog play and aggressiveness. Anyways I was kind of hoping that a bigger dog would snap back and put them in their place. Instead, I had 2 dog owners tell me that I needed to yell at my dogs and pin them down on the ground to show them whose boss. That if i don't get control of them that they could bite another dog and then be deemed an aggressive dog and have to wear a muzzle and I wouldn't be able to go to the dog park anymore...I told them this was only their 2nd exposure to other dogs, and that they are very well behaved at home, they just seem to be a bit "excited" with other dogs. The puppies would still come to me when I called them, but would often dart off at a dog and, according to these dogs owners they were trying to herd the other dog and almost nipped it heals...thats what they're bread for. I do not deny they were chasing it, and I know that cattle dogs will often try to herd things, but if they had wanted to nip the dogs heels, they would have. and they didn't. they just chased it and as soon as it turned around they turned and ran away. they also kind of jump back and forth while barking at a stationary dog.

I guess I just need to know how much of this is normal behavior that they'll grow out of with continued training and dog park visits...or if none of it is and I have 2 dogs with behavior issues that will need to wear muzzels! I spend time training them each day and they are responding very well to it. I am just nervous to go back to the dog park and get in trouble from the other owners! ( I know puppy preschool is an option, but is it the only option??)

Thanks in advance for any help :)

Comments

Wed, 06/11/2008 - 06:37 — imaginationdead

sensitive puppies

I am going to add my two cents here because I went through kind of the same thing you are, I hope thats ok. I tried to socialize my dog by introducing her to as many different people and dogs as I could, which was what I was told to do. This sounds good, but the one thing that was missing was HOW to introduce them, and with WHAT KIND of people and dogs. I ended up with a very reactive dog, one who couldn't ignore other dogs, or politely meet a person or dog because she was so excited, and under that excitement was clearly nervousness and fear. We are working on all that now and making great strides.But you are lucky!, this was only their second exposure to other dogs, so you still have time to do it right the first time.
My first advice would be to avoid dog parks at all costs or atleast
for awhile- avoid all rude dogs and humans! These are humans who dont ask to pet your dog, who talk, bark or do things to her just to get
some big response. Rude dogs run straight at other dogs, jump on them, while polite dogs approach slower and in an arc. My biggest mistake was not protecting my dog from these rude people and dogs. It was my responsibility!
Dog parks are full of EXCITED, pent up, often very rude dogs. So while
they seem "socialized" because they are there with other dogs, they
are actually often not well socialized dogs who can be polite and
calmly share a space with other dogs. Especially for smaller sensitive
dogs, like herding dogs or any puppies, a park full of big rowdy dogs
is extremely intimidating and overwhelmingly exciting. Even more so
when they may have never even met a dog before. It seems to me that
your pups were showing you that they were way too excited, and also
intimidated. Maybe they were chasing other dogs because they were
interested and wanted to say hi, but then were scared and ran away
when it turned to them.
Either way, your dogs should first meet dogs who are calm, who they
can slowly walk up to and investigate. Who they can sniff and have
plenty of time to relax around. Otherwise they are going to associate
dogs with being really excited, being nervous, nipping, and barking.
And a nervous excited dog is more likely to feel overwhelmed and
choose to defend with growls or bites. You want them to associate it
rather with communication (using their signals- read Turid Rugaas'
"Calming Signals") shared space, friendliness, calmness. Packs relax
together 80% of the time, they play in short bursts and always with
polite boundaries. In day to day life dogs not in their pack are best ignored.I had a bad puppy kindergarten experience, but you'll have to figure out what your pups need. Just be willing to protect them if they need it.

Hope this helped!
-Sarah

Fri, 06/13/2008 - 14:45 — Aidan
Aidan's picture

good comment!

Hi Sarah, I second everything you just said :-)

Regards,
Aidan
http://www.positivepetzine.com

Fri, 08/22/2008 - 05:52 — naomi_abroad@ho...
naomi_abroad@hotmail.com's picture

Hi Sarah, I also face the

Hi Sarah,

I also face the same problem. 1 of my dogs is highly reactive and "rude" and went to the dog park often as a puppy and was frequently picked on by bigger dogs. This is my fiance's dog and I was not around when it was a puppy, but now, more than 4 years later, we still have problems with him.

Do you have any reading suggestions on hoe to deal with this type of dog. We'd always pegged him as aggressive with other dogs but your description meets his behavior to a tee.

Thanks,

Naomi

Fri, 06/13/2008 - 14:43 — Aidan
Aidan's picture

dog parks

The good news is your dogs are normal and don't need to wear muzzles. The bad news is that your dog park is frequented by morons and going there will just bum you out.

Your dogs do need more socialisation, but I doubt that the dog park is the place for this sort of dog. Look into "Puppy Kindergarten" classes or similar. Try to find one that uses a positive reinforcement approach, most do these days even if they change their tactics later on. Even the most died-in-the-wool traditional dog obedience instructor wouldn't yell at a pup and pin it to the ground for this sort of behavior! That suggestion is just nuts even for someone who advocates aversive training methods or being "alpha".

My other suggestion would be to make a special effort to socialise each pup separately. They need to get used to being apart anyway, and they'll probably be less cocky when they're on their own. I would lean towards more outings apart than together, but this might not be practical. It depends on what you can manage.

Regards,
Aidan
http://www.positivepetzine.com

Sun, 06/22/2008 - 07:25 — Tailspin
Tailspin's picture

Hi. Ahhh the dilemma of

Hi. Ahhh the dilemma of dogparks...a place where dogs that have been cooped up all day, driven to the park and let run wild! I have a great dog park near me and we do frequent it (I am a pro dogwalker) but I am very careful with new puppies or exciteable dogs (and you have both!). It is a very stimulating environment for these little guys and many of the other dogs have little or no exercise besides the park and so are a little manic.
Take the advice of the above posters, it is good sound advice that will help your pups be socialized in a better environment. Puppy kindergarten is lovely and social and CONTROLLED so at least you know that the other dog owners are also on the same page behaviour wise.
If you really want to do the dogpark thing, check to see if the dogpark has slower times during the day that may be more appropriate for your pups.
Just be aware that the herding breeds often have difficulties in large groups and there are always going to be people who assume your dog is aggressive when playing or even vice versa. A strong sense of doggy communication and body language is a great asset to an owner and can head problems off at the pass, so to speak.
Oh, and the next time someone tells you you should alpha roll your dog take your pups and leave..dangerous practice, that is.

Maggi
Tailspin Petworx

Tue, 07/15/2008 - 08:45 — revnkeller
revnkeller's picture

Snappy Puppies

I have also been told that "before" you take you dog(s) or puppies to a dog park or any other place of interaction, exercise them well to wear off some of their, let's say "enthusiasm?" I am taking my 9 month old bichon, Renoir, to his first obediance class tonight and will walk him well and have him chase some balls before we go.
Good Luck
JJ